tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post1400406788326557876..comments2024-03-29T02:32:15.437-04:00Comments on Remarkable: Johns v Moore, and comfort readingGeoff Klockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-84789069113713558192009-12-17T07:26:41.168-05:002009-12-17T07:26:41.168-05:00Sorry if this was said but might this be a theory?...Sorry if this was said but might this be a theory? You're positing Geoff Johns as Frasier and Alan Moore as The Sopranos. I think auteur theory might explain it, and guilt too. I don't watch Sopranos, but I believe there was one guy who ran the thing and wrote the last episode etc. Some guy who benefits from intelligent people watching his show. With crappy sitcoms, we don't have any sense of an auteur(s). They just pump out the stuff for the masses. Meanwhile, with comics, we can say Geoff Johns is a good, yet not transcendent tv writer... But when you read the book and you see his name and you see Frank Miller's name, you kinda wish that Frank Miller were writing this instead of Geoff Johns. Why, you think, am I lining Johns' pockets when I should use my money to make DC pay Frank Miller more money to write this. It goes back to your wish that Fraction's books could be profitable. With sitcoms (I also like Frasier so let's substitute Two and a Half Men) there's a sense that that shit's gonna get pumped out no matter what...frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08494008842959982949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-23585470518829591602009-11-27T19:42:42.133-05:002009-11-27T19:42:42.133-05:00Well, I think Johns' comics do offer a sense o...Well, I think Johns' comics do offer a sense of fannish engagement, just like Stan Lee used to promote at Marvel Comics -- wiser heads than mine have suggested this was a major component of the Marvel Mania, and something Stan got very right, that DC took forever to catch up on. It's a little bit like a soap opera fan talking back to the screen: they're not crazy, they're just in pursuit of a particular kind of engagement with "their stories" -- talking back heightens the bogus "face-to-face" relationships that soap operas are so good at providing.<br /><br />You can tell I wrote a sociology paper on this once, can't you...<br /><br />So, yeah, I think at the very least it draws on the social...which is a way of saying it's "fan-fic" without the negative connotations, I think. Fan-fic's a positive pleasure for very many people, and in a way I think we're wrong to <i>just</i> turn it into a pejorative...although I also happen to think Johns' books aren't very good! But that doesn't mean I've never talked back to a soap opera myself -- so I don't think there's anything specially abnormal about that behaviour.<br /><br />Well, hell...I spent my life reading comic books, you know?<br /><br />So, damn good point.plokhttp://circumstantial.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-89471466660960692762009-11-27T09:21:45.539-05:002009-11-27T09:21:45.539-05:00And you can see why some people treat movies the w...And you can see why some people treat movies the way Geoff treat comics can't you, given that. But I at least am more tolerant of a bit of fluff in my cinema because of all the social activity that surrounds it, and I think something similar may happen with the comics fans who like Johns.Verdancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14062788738549767062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-24668507221580136862009-11-25T10:29:38.278-05:002009-11-25T10:29:38.278-05:00Not in a million years...hey, try this on for size...Not in a million years...hey, try this on for size, though: I'd flat-out <i>gamble</i> ten bucks on a <i>movie!</i><br /><br />Often have, in fact!plokhttp://circumstantial.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-76191424516610562672009-11-25T09:35:57.437-05:002009-11-25T09:35:57.437-05:00Would you pay 4 bucks an episode for Fraser though...Would you pay 4 bucks an episode for Fraser though?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16069725904484579028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-26801278569101443132009-11-24T11:13:02.618-05:002009-11-24T11:13:02.618-05:00I, for one, am appalled.I, for one, am appalled.neilshyminskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14745442660488961314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-48199681962104719152009-11-23T23:40:43.571-05:002009-11-23T23:40:43.571-05:00PLOK, MARK -- I cannot believe you are validating ...PLOK, MARK -- I cannot believe you are validating me on this reba thing. I kind of love it .Geoff Klockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-47060990361049181352009-11-23T08:16:16.593-05:002009-11-23T08:16:16.593-05:00I like Reba more than Frasier!I like Reba more than Frasier!plokhttp://circumstantial.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-71398385377739475292009-11-23T06:22:33.677-05:002009-11-23T06:22:33.677-05:00I don't think there's such a thing as a gu...I don't think there's such a thing as a guilty pleasure. We should accept it where we find it.<br /><br />Anyway, Reba isn't that bad of a show. If she wasn't a country singer, it probably would have had a better rep.Marc Burkhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06949686463975572297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-6458612632322378772009-11-22T19:05:58.566-05:002009-11-22T19:05:58.566-05:00I feel a little like I loaded the deck in my favor...I feel a little like I loaded the deck in my favor, because I did not really want to name one of my real guilty pleasures because it is too guilty -- the sitcom Reba.Geoff Klockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-85763535502384619342009-11-22T16:22:27.736-05:002009-11-22T16:22:27.736-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-28079598463942077822009-11-22T00:40:31.860-05:002009-11-22T00:40:31.860-05:00I'm with Neil on this one... I think you'r...I'm with Neil on this one... I think you're selling Frasier short. Sure, it's a fairly formulaic sit-com that didn't break any new ground in the way that, say, Seinfeld did but it is, as far as the form of the traditional sit-com is concerned pretty top of the line in terms of quality in writing, acting and characters. So I don't really think Frasier is Johns... Frasier is more like, I'm just gonna say, Peter David and Johns would be Everybody Loves Raymond... Or The Big Bang Theory.<br /><br />I also agree with Plok, I think the fact that comics are read has a lot to do with this as well... Outside of comics, I'm a big fan of fiction and, whenever friends try to reccomend a work of 'popular fiction', usually with the prefix of 'well, you don't have to think about it but it's a good page turner' I find myself getting bored within a couple of chapters. The reason I can't read Stephen King, Grisham or Dan Brown is because, as entertaining as they are to others, they bore me. Also, reading is a more willful activity, you have to make time to do it... however, when it comes to Milk and Cookies television especially, it's usually the result of too much time on your hands... One of my Milk and Cookies shows is CSI reruns on Spike TV and, the best part about that show is, if I miss an episode, it doesn't matter, If I get busy and can't watch it for a while, even so far as having to just shut the TV off mid episode, It's cool and, when I watch an episode, it's only an hour of my time. <br /><br />So I guess what I'm trying to say is... No, Stephen King, I will not read your 1000 page interpretation of The Simpsons movie because I don't have that much time on my hands.Scott McDarmonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17635278219643824124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-77810234272445299592009-11-22T00:38:16.751-05:002009-11-22T00:38:16.751-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Scott McDarmonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17635278219643824124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-32411860289814196482009-11-21T01:24:12.617-05:002009-11-21T01:24:12.617-05:00I skimmed over this whole piece cause we were talk...I skimmed over this whole piece cause we were talking about superheroes and it was too long. can someone sum this up for me?deepfixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05688617334074955669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-28952031788851222162009-11-20T21:48:07.802-05:002009-11-20T21:48:07.802-05:00I think the key thing is that reading and watching...I think the key thing is that reading and watching TV are two very different activities -- and that you feel comfortable watching some mediocre crap where you wouldn't feel comfortable reading some similarly mediocre crap is one of the ways we can distinguish those activities from one another, and <i>know</i> their difference. So that's not a bug, Geoff -- it's a feature.<br /><br />I sometimes like milk and cookies too, but usually only after I've had my meat and potatoes...also, following Neil, if the cookies are cardboard and the milk is watered, I'm not so sure I <i>do</i> want them.plokhttp://circumstantial.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-63610326766454305282009-11-20T21:17:47.255-05:002009-11-20T21:17:47.255-05:00"I too sometimes just want my milk and cookie..."I too sometimes just want my milk and cookies -- but for some reason I get angry at adequate comics while accepting -- and even really liking -- a lot of adequate television. I find it frustrating to end with a kind of "to each his own" mentality, but on this one, it is all I have got."<br /><br />But if you're suggesting that Frasier is analogous to Geoff Johns' superhero comics, I think there's room for another degree or kind - a level in between Johns and Moore, as it were, even if it's closer to the former. Because if Frasier and Hal Jordan are both cookies, Frasier is a Dutch butter cookie and Hal belongs to one of those bulk food no-name brands that, once you've finished (<i>if</i> you finish) leave you contemplating whether you should have bothered with the cookie in the first place.<br /><br />Also, I suspect that having to pay for each individual comic that you specifically choose, as opposed to paying for all your TV at once and so not feeling as if you are actually paying for the trash you might watch, has something to do with resenting a bad comic more than a bad TV show.neilshyminskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14745442660488961314noreply@blogger.com