tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post1582468582351697758..comments2024-03-19T03:17:15.936-04:00Comments on Remarkable: Uncanny 274Geoff Klockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-16832729264361382322014-11-18T17:34:11.981-05:002014-11-18T17:34:11.981-05:00Jason, re: both Magneto and Rogue being "evil...Jason, re: both Magneto and Rogue being "evil but reformed" mutants:<br /><br />It's not just that. Rogue wasn't just an X-villain; if that was the case, Banshee or Sunfire or even Forge (from a certain point of view) would have worked just as well. Rogue was a central member of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants in particular. She represents everything that Magneto needs: the proof that his vision, his legacy, can produce something good. Her redemption story mirrors his. She was caught up in his biggest sin (the founding of the Brotherhood) and managed to come all the way around to representing Xavier's dream even in Xavier's absence. Her story proves that Magneto isn't beyond redemption, as he will come to believe before the end of the next issue.NietzscheIsDeadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768198450373297438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-53581315728893744772014-11-18T17:32:08.673-05:002014-11-18T17:32:08.673-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.NietzscheIsDeadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768198450373297438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-68649441822557080012011-11-29T16:28:56.970-05:002011-11-29T16:28:56.970-05:00Blah Blah Blah Menshevik and the author live up th...Blah Blah Blah Menshevik and the author live up the Old Terrorist Twat's overrated ass. The only perfect pairing for Rogue is a bullet to her brainless head. Dazzler or really any other X lady should be front and center in the crap X titles not a hideous inbred hick like Rogue. Proud Hater Since 1981. The end. {Shelle}Morrison Was Rightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-21438406436327049572010-10-24T21:40:14.800-04:002010-10-24T21:40:14.800-04:00I remember this issue feelinglike a pure thrill af...I remember this issue feelinglike a pure thrill after the nearly two years of disjointed post-Inferno stories. Maybe if the Dissolution era had a more consistent art team or at least better fill-in artists, it may be remembered better as there is a fair amount of good stuff in there. But this issue really felt like the big picture X-Men firing on all cylinders that I had encountered upon first picking up the book at the start of the Outback era. Only with hindsight do I see Claremont resolving plotlines and putting all the toys back in place at editorial behest.<br /><br />I also recommend Not Blog X. It and the X-Axis are/were my two favorite places to read issue bloggers do their thing on the X books. That is, of course, before I encountered the mighty powers of Jason Powell :) I had wanted for a long time to go back and read the entirety of the Claremont run and it has been a lot of fun to read your analyses along with the issues. I'm waiting for Marvel to publish another volume of the Essential Uncanny to finish off the run, but I decided I didn't want to wait til then to read the rest of your reviews.<br /><br />And since it was brought up earlier in the thread, I have to comment on Uncanny #219. This issue feels so off that I think of the whole issue as being seen from Havok's perspective as he is trying to fight his way through Betsy's brainwashing. Claremont is feeding us a bit of the old unreliable narrator, is the only way I can make that issue fit comfortably.Isaac P.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-56268837652938027922010-07-14T11:00:56.119-04:002010-07-14T11:00:56.119-04:00@Jason: Assuming it's interesting/intriguing/h...@Jason: Assuming it's interesting/intriguing/hilarious enough to stimulate some reaction from me, definitely! I can't resist a request...Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-65878537425050080302010-07-13T12:59:30.473-04:002010-07-13T12:59:30.473-04:00If you pick it up, Tee, will you blog about it? Y...If you pick it up, Tee, will you blog about it? You should!Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-50691790603339612592010-07-13T11:13:36.803-04:002010-07-13T11:13:36.803-04:00@Jason: Thanks for the comments about Claremont...@Jason: Thanks for the comments about Claremont's X-Women. I added it to my pull list once I saw Claremont was doing it, but haven't picked it up yet.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-4705787429372023602010-07-12T22:15:12.488-04:002010-07-12T22:15:12.488-04:00Interesting. Thanks, Tee and Anon! I have read P...Interesting. Thanks, Tee and Anon! I have read PAD's X-Factor, and I definitely enjoyed much of it. (Though interestingly that run has the distinction of containing a moment cited in Geoff's book as an example of lame 90s superhero soap opera.)<br /><br />I am curious about Ellis' Excalibur, for sure. And I love Joe Casey's "Children of the Atom" miniseries, so I can believe he might do a good X-book.<br /><br />Lobdell, man, I don't know. I go hot and cold with that guy, but the cold is REALLY cold.<br /><br />P.S. I read Claremont's "X-Women" one-shot today. It is wild -- virtual soft-core lesbian porn, starring Claremont's favorite female characters. Possibly Claremont's most self-aware comic ever -- very much playing up his own excesses, and shamelessly mocking stuff that other writers have done that he hates ... plus he's abandoned any attempt at the poetic rhythms that he usually attempts (and used to succeed at), instead having lines like "Emma is such a bitch" and "You don't want to piss the X-Men off." Crazy. Could this be Claremont's "All Star Batman and Robin"?Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-42240903122089268002010-07-12T19:10:16.654-04:002010-07-12T19:10:16.654-04:00I agree Teebore's comments.
He mentions some o...I agree Teebore's comments.<br />He mentions some of my absolute favourite X-titles, that rank as being actually good X-stories post-Claremont.<br />Lobdell and Robinson on Generation X.<br />John Francis Moore's X-Force is a personal favourite. A very different type of X-book for the post-Claremont period.<br />Warren Ellis' Excalibur is great. I consider it one of Ellis best works to this day, and I am a fan of Ellis.<br />Peter David's X-Factor is brilliant.<br />I also enjoyed the Joe Casey run on Cable from the late-90s. I'm not a big fan of the Cable character either.<br />And, the Gambit on-going series from the mid-90s. That was a pretty dire point in X-Men history, or so I believe, but the Gambit book stood out as one of the best X-books of the period.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-34461246849904244292010-07-07T11:43:14.982-04:002010-07-07T11:43:14.982-04:00@J: I'll second the endorsement of #309; that&...@J: I'll second the endorsement of #309; that's a personal fave. <br /><br />Lobdell's strengths were the quieter, character driven, post-crossover issue: #297, #308 & #309, 318.<br /><br />The Age of Apocalypse is definitely worth a look. Kelly had a good (though abbreviated) run on X-Men post Operation: Zero Tolerance, and Alan Davis had a run on both books shortly thereafter, near the end of the decade that, if unspectacular, were some solid X-Men super-heroics that were refreshing after the crossover craziness of the mid-90s. <br /><br />In terms of the spinoffs, Peter David's X-Factor that launched alongside X-Men is worth a look, though ignore it after he leaves and before it turns into a Howard Mackie mess. The Moore/Pollina "road trip" run on X-Force is worth a look, as is Warren Ellis' Excalibur run. <br /><br />Generation X has fits and starts of good stuff, especially for New Mutants fans. Lobdell turns in his most consistent work for the early run of the series (though, like everything else, it's marred by the constant crossovers) and the Bachalo art, at least on his first run, is fantastic. <br /><br />Not Blog X can definitely help separate the wheat from the chaff of 90s X-Men comics.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-66375786643497358152010-07-06T19:38:36.263-04:002010-07-06T19:38:36.263-04:00@Jason, Uncanny 309 is probably my favorite 90s X-...@Jason, Uncanny 309 is probably my favorite 90s X-Comic. I think it came out post 93 so you wouldn't have read it. It's a great examination of Xavier and the relationship with his students. It *almost* feels like something Claremont would write. It's got some great Romita jr art as well.<br /><br />Most of the stuff that came from the main two X-Books wasn't very good though mainly due to how out of control the crossovers had gotten. The good ones were the quiet issues between crossovers. X-Men 33 comes to mind.<br /><br />I'd have to look through my comics to find more specific issues. I can also say that Wolverine's solo book was shockingly good throughout most of the decade.Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-81847039460839241542010-07-06T19:17:56.418-04:002010-07-06T19:17:56.418-04:00I began reading and collecting X-men with Phalanx ...I began reading and collecting X-men with Phalanx Covenant. I think the 90s cartoon drew me in. I loved all that stuff at the time, but most of it is pretty tough to read now. I've reread several trades of the 90s stuff, and find myself bored through most of it. The only things I've continued to enjoy was the Age of Apocalypse stuff.<br /><br />-Dan S.dschonbehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04459722690434474229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-26552412015825692482010-07-06T18:19:31.362-04:002010-07-06T18:19:31.362-04:00@J: I guess I'm the only one here who likes Cl...@J: <i>I guess I'm the only one here who likes Claremont and 90s X-Men (well don't exactly like it but thing there's a lot of good stuff to be found)</i><br /><br />Nah, you're not the only one. I'm one too. I grew into X-Men in the 90s (X-Men #8 and Uncanny 290 were my first issues) and grew to love Claremont retroactively. <br /><br />There are definitely some diamonds in the rough of the 90s, and I'll always have a nostalgic fondness for even the worst stuff, as it's the stuff I knew first, the stuff that got me hooked.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-78042506233336830072010-07-06T00:10:33.463-04:002010-07-06T00:10:33.463-04:00Recommendations are welcome, J! As noted, I cut a...Recommendations are welcome, J! As noted, I cut and run in 1993 so feel free to educate me.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-81160453298004829512010-07-05T17:05:05.652-04:002010-07-05T17:05:05.652-04:00I guess I'm the only one here who likes Clarem...I guess I'm the only one here who likes Claremont and 90s X-Men (well don't exactly like it but thing there's a lot of good stuff to be found)Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-3761945934204024682010-07-01T21:04:16.944-04:002010-07-01T21:04:16.944-04:00I consider the Claremont/Lee era to be the hints o...I consider the Claremont/Lee era to be the hints of what could have been a great run on the X-Men. While I appreciate your critical revisionism of the OZ+ issues, it took these first Lee issues to realize how much the previous ones were treading water. Nothing actually happened. And then Jim Lee came along and managed to bring a sense of excitement and edge to the title. And this happened because, for the first time in almost ten years, Claremont had an artist that wouldn't just go with the flow but had definitive ideas for where the story should go. I'm sorry that Claremont left (hell, I pretty much quit collecting comics at that point) but really, the fault is all his. His sense of true collaboration atrophied over the last few years and having his artist challenge his ideas set him off and Bob Harras called him on it (that said, Bob Harras should have been fired, or at least demonted, for siding so aggresively with an artist who left the company unceremoniously within a year; he never should have been rewarded with editor in chief). Chris Claremont in the early eighties would have rolled with the punches abd kept going.deepfixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05688617334074955669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-17509251161162630222010-07-01T09:55:10.909-04:002010-07-01T09:55:10.909-04:00I was thinking the other day that between the hair...I was thinking the other day that between the hair, tattoos, piercings and missing body-parts, Age of Apocalypse is like an Elseworlds where the X-Men are all pirates.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14740669500899738381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-75512000534905517172010-07-01T09:49:30.360-04:002010-07-01T09:49:30.360-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Menshevikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07112873248418375924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-56640529517952544792010-07-01T09:38:19.704-04:002010-07-01T09:38:19.704-04:00@Jason: The reviews are painfully accurate in iden...@Jason: <i>The reviews are painfully accurate in identifying the many flaws in those issues. Man, that was a crushing disappointment at the time ...</i><br /><br />Ain't that the sad truth?Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-86262321695220284762010-07-01T00:08:43.072-04:002010-07-01T00:08:43.072-04:00Of course Byrne would feel - he was a co-author, a...Of course Byrne would feel - he was a co-author, and then had to watch "his" characters continue without his input. And his run is the most famous, the most anthologized, and sometimes the only one read by new X-Authors (hello Morrison), so it does exert an outsized influence on the property. For years the only classic X-stories I'd read were Byrne's Magneto two-parter, Dark Phoenix, God Loves Man Kills, and From the Ashes. This creates certain expectations like, Where's Banshee? What? He hasn't been an X-Man since the Carter administration? The anthology-proof "spiral path" plots of the 80s Claremont stories haven't helped cement those works in the collective consciousness either. <br /><br />But I want to distinguish authors in a succession of shared universe stories from fanfic writers playing in the same sandbox. Consider "The Amazing Spider Man", which managed to maintain a coherent continuity from the 60s through the early 90s under a dozen or more different pens. It's the respect accorded by subsequent authors that canonizes a run in a shared universe.Peter Faragonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-29035630595115981712010-06-30T22:56:55.316-04:002010-06-30T22:56:55.316-04:00I recall an online John Byrne fan saying that ever...I recall an online John Byrne fan saying that everything Claremont did post Uncanny X-Men 143 (Byrne's last) "feels like fan-fic" to him.<br /><br />This is a slippery slope. :)<br /><br />BTW, I read the Not Blog X reviews of Wolverine 125-128, which were Claremont's return to the X-Universe in 1998, his first X stuff in 7 years. The reviews are painfully accurate in identifying the many flaws in those issues. Man, that was a crushing disappointment at the time ...Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-13609035246593067172010-06-30T22:40:54.644-04:002010-06-30T22:40:54.644-04:00Dan - I'm pretty much okay with that wrinkle. ...Dan - I'm pretty much okay with that wrinkle. Patrick (from thoughtsonstuff.blogspot.com, who did a similar read-through of the Claremont run some time ago and posts in these threads from time to time) has said that after Inferno, the characters no longer felt real to him or capable of change, and I'm inclined to agree with him. That's certainly the point at which he starts to lose control of the franchise, and besides this story (the Savage Land trilogy), none of the post-Inferno stories are really esential.Peter Faragonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-51740059174188982452010-06-30T21:02:47.653-04:002010-06-30T21:02:47.653-04:00@Peter - Well said. There's not much I can sa...@Peter - Well said. There's not much I can say in response, so I won't say much.<br /><br />Your definition of fanfic can be a little problematic though. Does Claremont's attempt to de-power Wolverine count as fanfic? It's a storyline that Jason has demonstrated that Claremont put significant effort into the major alteration yet none of it stuck. I suppose though that the natural end of extending that thought is that any unpopular (with Harras/Lee & the rest of the X-staff) idea Claremont had at the end of his run turned out as fanfic since Claremont didn't stick around long enough to make the ideas stick.<br /><br />I'm giving NotBlogX a try. I'm enjoying it so far. Jason's analysis seems more academic (in a good way, though as a one time academic I'll admit to a biased point of view) than anything I'm seeing from G. Kendall though. Thank you for the recommendations.<br /><br />-Dan S.dschonbehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04459722690434474229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-84865582648712543612010-06-30T20:25:41.850-04:002010-06-30T20:25:41.850-04:00Most of the 90s blow, but there was a brief aborte...Most of the 90s blow, but there was a brief aborted run by Joe Kelly and Carlos Pacheco from X-Men #70-#85 that was really pretty great. X-Men #85 (with Alan Davis art) is honestly good enough that it gave me the same great feeling I got from reading Claremont's 80s issues. I highly recommend that issue.Jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-42000968772043596502010-06-30T18:23:09.171-04:002010-06-30T18:23:09.171-04:00Thirded: Not Blog X is great fun. G. Kendall has m...Thirded: Not Blog X is great fun. G. Kendall has made reading about mostly-forgettable comics (including Spawn & Web of Spider-Man) enjoyable.<br /><br />The tension between Claremont & Byrne, Claremont & Lee, and (I think) Claremont & Paul Smith made for better comics. While I've learned to appreciate the other runs a lot more, I feel like Cockrum, JR Jr., Silvestri, and other artists were more likely to draw what Claremont plotted. Byrne, Lee, & Smith were more action-oriented, less likely to draw taking heads scenes. Byrne fixed Wolverine without having him mope, and Smith & Lee picked up the pace (contrast with Cockrum's draggy 2nd run and all the introspection during JR Jr's). <br /><br />In issue 274, Lee was kind enough to draw the big panel of Magneto getting dressed, giving Claremont the space necessary to put in that great monologue. Most of the rest of the issue was action-packed. I feel like maybe Claremont had to work harder to make his contribution felt and retain some control over "his" comic. Eventually, he threw his hands up and walked away, but not before bringing more to his scripts than he had prior to Lee's ascendancy.<br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com