tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post4550276926189827115..comments2024-03-28T03:13:15.831-04:00Comments on Remarkable: From The Box: Rob Liefeld’s YoungbloodGeoff Klockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-17681311492930320172009-04-09T02:57:00.000-04:002009-04-09T02:57:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.sexyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00785835090328728639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-7583031417714404102009-01-10T07:24:00.000-05:002009-01-10T07:24:00.000-05:00We're sure it's not because the inker is r...We're sure it's not because the inker is redrawing the scene, as with Karl Kesel and him on Hawk & Dove?Christian O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00444025571307204096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-1046651652875473772009-01-09T21:11:00.000-05:002009-01-09T21:11:00.000-05:00Fnord,You raise a good point, also in 'the box' is...Fnord,<BR/><BR/>You raise a good point, also in 'the box' is an issue of New Mutants from early on in Liefeld's tenure (issue 90 to be precise) and, in comparison, it seems downright competent. It's amazing how much worse his art became as he gained more 'artistic control' over his properties.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-28002678188787259002009-01-09T18:03:00.000-05:002009-01-09T18:03:00.000-05:00I'm far from the biggest Louise Simonson fan, but ...I'm far from the biggest Louise Simonson fan, but she has a fantastic response in "Comics Creators on X-Men" when asked about what it was like to work with Rob Liefeld on New Mutants. By all accounts, "Weezie" is one of the nicest people in the industry, and you can imagine her being very sweet as she says something to the effect of, "Well, it was strange. Rob would draw the outside of a building with rectangular windows, then you'd cut to the interior and the windows would suddenly be oval-shaped ... it was a little confusing to me."Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-30999749390654620392009-01-09T16:42:00.000-05:002009-01-09T16:42:00.000-05:00I was thrilled with Liefeld when he started on New...I was thrilled with Liefeld when he started on New Mutants. He brought a breath of fresh air to a title that had been feeling stale. But by the time it was relaunched as X-Force and Louise Simonson was no longer there to bring sense and coherency to Liefeld's work, I realized that for all the flash there was very little substance. I still let myself get suckered into buying Youngblood #1 due to all the hype. The saddest part is that I bought it as a back issue a month after it came out, paying something like $8.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-70442145046271344592009-01-09T08:44:00.000-05:002009-01-09T08:44:00.000-05:00Christian,Dead on about Liefeld wanting to be Kirb...Christian,<BR/><BR/>Dead on about Liefeld wanting to be Kirby and "Everything Kirby manages to do right, liefeld manages to fuck up" is pretty much the best way of putting it.<BR/><BR/>Actually, the Bezerkers mentioned above are intended as a Kirby homage and are lead by a cigar-chomping tough guy named 'Kirby' (ah, the subtlety). And that issue opens with 'Respectfully (sic) dedicated to Jack Kirby'<BR/>I think this may have even been right around the time of his death... which makes it even more painful to think about. <BR/><BR/>Mikey,<BR/><BR/>Please do write up that comic!<BR/>That would be X-men 4 or 5, right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-27617116711954393522009-01-09T07:52:00.000-05:002009-01-09T07:52:00.000-05:00Liefeld so desperately wants to be Jack Kirby, but...Liefeld so desperately wants to be Jack Kirby, but has neither the imagination or the skill to pull it off.<BR/><BR/>But that's definitely who he's modeled himself after. (Wonky anatomy, "dynamic" lines, space-weapons etc.? Everything Kirby does right, Liefeld manages to fuck up.)<BR/><BR/><BR/>And my favorite Liefeld quote is still when he was doing a Wizard article about how to draw Robin, drew an enourmous circle behind him, and said: "A moon! For atmosphere!"Christian O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00444025571307204096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-69264421116797870892009-01-09T05:24:00.000-05:002009-01-09T05:24:00.000-05:00Mikey,Yeh, Claremont had, I believe, already quit ...Mikey,<BR/><BR/>Yeh, Claremont had, I believe, already quit before the relaunch even got off the ground. Him writing the first three issues with Lee was, essentially, his severance package. <BR/><BR/>(Well, sort of, anyway. Not a perfect analogy. Do you get a severance package if you quit?)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-28515601020246612132009-01-09T04:43:00.000-05:002009-01-09T04:43:00.000-05:00Jason - you're right of course! A quick Google sho...Jason - you're right of course! A quick Google shows it was one of the issues following the Claremont relaunch (2nd series) with Lee, but by then Lee had taken over as sole plotter with Byrne on scripts (interesting times!). <BR/><BR/>Claremont didn't last long here, did he? Ultimately followed on the title by 90s stalwarts Scott Lobdell and Fabian Nicieza (art by Adam Kubert) which is where I picked it up. And a more turgid and angsty comic than the issue in question I cannot recall reading. I so want to write this up.....Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13843014015527136142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-79888436689219452342009-01-09T04:33:00.000-05:002009-01-09T04:33:00.000-05:00Mikey,For what it's worth, if it had Omega Red in ...Mikey,<BR/><BR/>For what it's worth, if it had Omega Red in it, then Claremont wasn't involved. :)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-40258794892700790482009-01-09T04:31:00.000-05:002009-01-09T04:31:00.000-05:00PS: this makes me want to dig out my first comic a...PS: this makes me want to dig out my first comic and take a look. It was one of the Claremont/Jim Lee X-Men following the relaunch. It was absolutely bewildering, I had no idea what was going on or who any of these ridiculous characters were (it had Omega Red in it for pity's sake), but something within me decided that it might be worth persevering with.<BR/><BR/>I'd very much like to hear more on this, from Scott and others! Great idea.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13843014015527136142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-69640178368257598262009-01-09T04:28:00.000-05:002009-01-09T04:28:00.000-05:00Christian - they were in a hot tub! That was the M...Christian - they were in a hot tub! That was the Mark Millar penned one that came out a few years ago. Only the first issue was released I think - was it subtitled "Bloodsport"? It was Millar in juvenile sadist mode (as noted by many, there's an undercurrent of this in all his work, but he really let it fly in this one). Awful.<BR/><BR/>The thing with Liefeld is that, well, this is (rightly) a common criticism Scott makes: "gross distortions of anatomy, awkwardly posed figures and a total lack of the basic artistic principles regarding perspective, distance etc."<BR/><BR/>But the thing is, the same basic flaws can be found in 99% of ALL superhero comics artwork (same goes for the dialogue). I think that's why everyone is so hostile to Liefeld (who may not even be the worst offender): it basically embodies and confirms every criticism, every cliche the public at large thinks of when they write off superhero comics as juvenile and slightly creepy. And to a point, sadly, they're correct. Fans hate Liefeld's work because in their hearts they know that, at least in some capacity, he genuinely does represent a somewhat regrettable but pretty fundamental aspect of the genre and it's the kind that you gravitate towards when you're 13 years old (you can still grow up to love Chris Ware and Jack Kirby, of course).<BR/><BR/>Don't get me wrong, though, I do think it is possible to get decent artwork with dynamic composition, expressive linework and genuine heart in superhero comics, the 1% that make it all worthwhile (Aja, Lark maybe, Quitely of course...)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13843014015527136142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-89809282717573423332009-01-08T18:47:00.000-05:002009-01-08T18:47:00.000-05:00Are you sure you aren't thinking of Ennis and 'The...Are you sure you aren't thinking of Ennis and 'The Boys'? I remember someone mentioning that one here...<BR/><BR/>If it is a Liefeld thing though, my guess would be 'Bloodwulf' (I think that's what it was called), his Lobo parody/rip-off that he came up with for the 'A Darker Image' group (which also gave us Keith's The Maxx).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-6679630010201339472009-01-08T18:25:00.000-05:002009-01-08T18:25:00.000-05:00PS. Which Liefeld comic was it that the main chara...PS. Which Liefeld comic was it that the main characters were getting blowjobs from a Cyclops imitation and a Wolverine pastiche? I seem to remember something mentioning it at one time, but I forgot.Christian O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00444025571307204096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-31885000110486776512009-01-08T18:24:00.000-05:002009-01-08T18:24:00.000-05:00You suffer so that I don't have to. I admire your ...You suffer so that I don't have to. I admire your dedication to your audience.<BR/><BR/>"A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from others'."<BR/><BR/>It's like Chris Sims' annotations of the Anita Blake comic book adaptions (which are hilarious btw.)Christian O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00444025571307204096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-5655517453461416822009-01-08T18:02:00.000-05:002009-01-08T18:02:00.000-05:00Christian,That's a pretty accurate statement, ther...Christian,<BR/><BR/>That's a pretty accurate statement, there were several times when writing this that I was tempted to let the expletives fly! I think I really just wanted to write this because it gave me the opportunity to type "and then some ninjas show up"<BR/><BR/>Seriously, I did want to approach it to see if there was ANYTHING redeeming about it... if maybe, beyond the horrible art, there was something else. Turns out there wasn't. And, sometimes, we must experience something truly horrible so that we can be reminded of how appreciative we should be of the things that are well done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-7142200113002016942009-01-08T17:38:00.000-05:002009-01-08T17:38:00.000-05:00Say what you want about Peter David, but being a r...Say what you want about Peter David, but being a reader of his "But I Digress" column in the 90s was a great inoculation for us guile-less teenagers against buying into the Image hype. I never bought any of that Liefeld crap, and I steered clear of Spawn and WildCATs too, until they got Moore and Claremont to write them, respectively. <BR/><BR/>And I'm certain I *would've* been sucked into the Image hype had Peter David not written some great answers to it in his column. So, props to PAD!Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-83494980122615758812009-01-08T17:14:00.000-05:002009-01-08T17:14:00.000-05:00I'm so happy, I never bothered with these series.(...I'm so happy, I never bothered with these series.<BR/><BR/>(Sad thing is that Supreme, WildCATS and the other early New Image books actually turned into pretty great books once some competent artists and writers got involved. Like Casey, Moore and Brubaker.)<BR/><BR/><BR/>And I think we can all agree, you (Scott) should stop thinking about Youngbloods so much that you can write as long an article as this. It can't be healthy for your blood pressure/sanity.Christian O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00444025571307204096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-39649359128857578652009-01-08T16:20:00.000-05:002009-01-08T16:20:00.000-05:00Anon,You're dead on about how all of liefeld's cha...Anon,<BR/><BR/>You're dead on about how all of liefeld's characters are either Cable, Deadpool, Shatterstar, Feral or Domino. That pretty much nails it. Yet, as I mentioned, he felt it was necessary to keep creating all these 'new characters' that were basically those same 5. <BR/><BR/><BR/>I actually have most of (possibly all) the Alan Davis sans Claremont run of Excalibur 'in the box' so I may actually do some of those in a future post.<BR/><BR/>Honestly, I think 15 year old me also thought this stuff was pretty bad but, for whatever reason, I just totally bought into the hype. I remember being pretty turned off by Youngblood... and, I think, these first 4 issues were the only ones that I owned. I remember clearly liking WildCATs a lot better. Still, this does not explain why I also felt it necessary to purchase the first 4 issues of the first series of Brigade. And Brigade 0... and the first issue of the second series of Brigade. God was I stupid...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-3699345823158784382009-01-08T15:48:00.000-05:002009-01-08T15:48:00.000-05:00One of the worst things about the Youngblood art w...One of the worst things about the Youngblood art was how much they looked like other Liefeld characters. It's like he can only draw characters who look like Cable, Shatterstar, Feral, Stryfe, or Domino.<BR/><BR/>Even my 14-year old self thought this was wretched, and didn't go beyond the 1st issue. A similar scenario occurred with Spawn.<BR/><BR/>But, like you, I bought many wretched comics in the early '90s. Some of the prime offenders were the Rogue mini-series, the Gambit mini-series, Excalibur post-Alan Davis (Any Excalibur with Alan Davis was completely awesome, still some of my favorite comics to this day), the Sabretooth mini-series, some pretty awful Captain America comics (the period leading up to him 'dying' was horrible yet I kept on buying them like a zombie...), X-Factor post-Peter David, Cage, Silver Sable, and Nomad after, like, issue 10 or so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com