tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post6079068228780720418..comments2024-03-28T03:13:15.831-04:00Comments on Remarkable: X-Factor 65-68Geoff Klockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-30114119191781275072014-11-19T19:40:06.706-05:002014-11-19T19:40:06.706-05:00"Besides the hints you mentioned, there are a..."Besides the hints you mentioned, there are also the floating images that include Cable, which show up at two different point in the story."<br /><br />This is actually related to a long-running Simonson plot running all the way back to her <i>Power Pack</i> days involving Stephen Lang, from way back in <i>X-Men</i> #98, having programmed into his Sentinels a list of twelve mutants called, creatively, "the Twelve," who were somehow destined to do... something incredibly nebulous. Exactly who this list included was a long-running <i>X-Factor</i> mystery: the floating head-pictures always appeared when they were mentioned, letting us see some of them.<br /><br />What's important to this discussion is that it shows that the X-office had, in fact, already settled on Baby Christopher as Cable's true identity, as the pictures that Portacio draws here actually include bring the total up to 13 if Cable and Christopher are counted as separate.<br /><br />This plot was later resolved after Claremont left, where it was revealed that Apocalypse had originated the list, which included an entirely new set of mutants. How Lang found the list to program into his Sentinels was never revealed.<br /><br />(Apropos of nothing, Nimrod mentioning way back in <i>Uncanny X-Men</i> #206 that there were <b><i>twelve</i></b> X-Men in Central Park was Claremont throwing Simonson a bone vis a vis this subplot.)NietzscheIsDeadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768198450373297438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-74141693225079408882011-04-07T13:31:42.048-04:002011-04-07T13:31:42.048-04:00Regarding Jean's telepathy making her redundan...Regarding Jean's telepathy making her redundant: don't forget that at this time, the X-Men were going to be split into Blue and Gold strike forces. Gold team (starring in <i>Uncanny X-Men</i>) had Jean, and Blue team (featured in <i>X-Men</i>) had Psylocke -- a telepath for each group. Plus an extra emergency telepath sitting back at home in the person of Xavier.<br /><br />Of course the Blue and Gold division didn't really last all that long. I think it stuck until Lee and Portacio left, then came small crossovers, like Colossuus hanging with the Blue team for a 3-part arc set in Russia, or Cyclops and Wolverine showing up in <i>Uncanny</i> #300... but within a couple of years, probably around the time of "Fatal Attractions", the whole idea was quietly dropped, and both X-titles used whichever characters they wanted. At that point, the redundancey become much more apparent.<br /><br />Incidentally, this is totally unrelated to the subject at hand, but mentioning issue 300 made me think of it -- I've always loved that John Romita Jr. illustrated both the 200th and 300th issues of <i>Uncanny X-Men</i>.Mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-30116442215154844532010-08-03T17:27:15.312-04:002010-08-03T17:27:15.312-04:00I think I have bought X-Men #1 at least seven time...I think I have bought X-Men #1 at least seven times ...<br /><br />I am clearly part of the problem. :(Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-70568569486381009972010-08-03T17:16:58.837-04:002010-08-03T17:16:58.837-04:00Re: Sales of X-men 1
According to Wikipedia, over...Re: Sales of X-men 1<br /><br />According to Wikipedia, over 8 million copies were sold. However, I THINK I remember reading somewhere that, in hindsight, they've estimated that less than ONE million of those were purchased for reading. Which means, a lot of people bought multiple copies but many of those were speculators who bouth all 6 copies, then didn't even bother reading them (which was the great injustice-- I can proudly say I NEVER bought a comic that I did NOT read (in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have read them because they were pretty bad-- but I read them)scottmcdarmontnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-27919874618918879892010-08-02T22:45:31.372-04:002010-08-02T22:45:31.372-04:00Peter Farago was right when he said...
"Don&...Peter Farago was right when he said... <br />"Don't call yourself a bad critic. You've been the highlight of my Tuesdays for two years."<br />High five.<br /><br />Also, how is Mockingbird released from Skrull imprisonment when she was shown as dead in the afterlife in both Busiek's Avengers and Thunderbolts runs?Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04480022982363984291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-83864526144431874992010-08-02T12:49:58.751-04:002010-08-02T12:49:58.751-04:00I've been away for a bit and thus missed most ...I've been away for a bit and thus missed most of the discussion on this and issue #277. <br /><br />Let me just say, as a Cyclops, I've always appreciated this arc and the effort put into redeeming Cyclops and the whole "abandoning Maddie" BS. <br /><br />And when I first read these issues (shortly after the reshuffle was complete and Claremont was gone) I was fully enraptured by the "is Cable Cyclops' son from the future?" subplot and subsequently read this story a lot. <br /><br />The excitement I had then still resonates today.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-48462457968981664242010-07-30T14:05:20.158-04:002010-07-30T14:05:20.158-04:00Long-time lurker, but first-time commenter here! ...Long-time lurker, but first-time commenter here! I've really enjoyed your series.<br /><br />These issues actually capped off my dislike of Jean Grey as a character. After Scott loses his son to the future, she can't be bothered to comfort him and goes off to party with the Inhumans. It always sat poorly with me.<br /><br />SamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-77066025479473407972010-07-29T21:33:47.651-04:002010-07-29T21:33:47.651-04:00In reluctant defense of Bendis, that was how he br...In reluctant defense of Bendis, that was how he brought in a fake Mockingbird. The real one was rescued later from a prison ship or something, along with all the other folks who were replaced.Nathan P. Mahneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01184246437497081701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-48040724317286987812010-07-29T13:00:43.191-04:002010-07-29T13:00:43.191-04:00Jason wrote: Zed, I do appreciate the Madelyne stu...Jason wrote: <i>Zed, I do appreciate the Madelyne stuff, even though it didn't make any sense how Maddie even got there. (She was part of a team that turned out to be Skrulls impersonating people from the X-Men's past. Except she somehow wasn't a Skrull, she was the real Madelyne ... ? Don't get it.)</i><br /><br />It's worth noting that Bendis more or less used the same plot to bring Mockingbird back into the Marvel Universe during Secret Invasion.<br /><br />Thanks again Jason. Keep up the great work.<br /><br />-Dan S.dschonbehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04459722690434474229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-42297344138006184292010-07-29T05:19:07.728-04:002010-07-29T05:19:07.728-04:00Not much to say about the write, but I feel obliga...Not much to say about the write, but I feel obligated to say that the first part of this storyline was my first ever X-comic... and I was confused as heck.<br /><br />A few months later, I'd pick up X-Men #1 and sill be confused, but apparently 10 year old me vastly preferred Lee to Portacio since I kept buying at that point!Joe Gualtierinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-31955078695593649312010-07-29T00:19:35.625-04:002010-07-29T00:19:35.625-04:00Zed, I do appreciate the Madelyne stuff, even thou...Zed, I do appreciate the Madelyne stuff, even though it didn't make any sense how Maddie even got there. (She was part of a team that turned out to be Skrulls impersonating people from the X-Men's past. Except she somehow wasn't a Skrull, she was the real Madelyne ... ? Don't get it.)<br /><br />I thought it was a decent attempt at creating some proper closure with Cyclops and her, and as an isolated scene it worked pretty well. That bit and the bit where Dani takes over the role of Death from Hela were the bits that hinted at what could have been: A true capstone to Claremont's classic run. But instead he tried to include a lot of the Morrison stuff and other bits from other continuity, and it all got pretty jumbled up and silly.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-64884108431986324762010-07-28T23:45:56.344-04:002010-07-28T23:45:56.344-04:00Jason -
In terms of Cyclops' redemption, what...Jason -<br /><br />In terms of Cyclops' redemption, what did you think of "X-Men: The End"'s new wrap-up of the Cyclops/Maddie Prior/Jean drama?<br /><br />I know you're on record as not liking "X-Men: The End", but I really liked what Claremont did with the Maddie storyline. Cyclops, in drunken-self-pity mode, confesses his biggest regret was losing Maddy, who loved Scott Summers, not Scott Summers The Mutant, or Scott Summers The X-Man. Then in the final battle Maddie appears and reveals she was always the essence of Jean that loved Scott, thus explaining why Scott and Jean's relationship never worked post-Maddie. Satisfied finally that Scott DOES in fact actually love her, she rejoins with Dead Jean, and Dead Jean and Dead Scott finally get some peace and transcend with the others in that odd Phoenix tree-of-life deal.<br /><br />I liked "The End" in general (the final issue made the whole thing for me), but I thought the Maddie stuff was the best part.Zedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08184846060265144764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-13215032713455229972010-07-28T23:43:22.739-04:002010-07-28T23:43:22.739-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Zedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08184846060265144764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-71623132707425869292010-07-28T19:11:05.267-04:002010-07-28T19:11:05.267-04:00"there's a line where he thinks something..."there's a line where he thinks something like ..." should be "there's a line where Cyclops thinks something like ..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-15588046754280722242010-07-28T19:09:35.775-04:002010-07-28T19:09:35.775-04:00The depiction of Apocalypse in these issues is unf...The depiction of Apocalypse in these issues is unforgivable -- comparable in at least the smallest of ways with mangling of Magneto's character in "Fatal Attractions." For all of Simonson's limitations as a writer, she gave Poccy a crude but consistent philosophy and attitude toward life. All of that is gone here. And so are his powers! Instead of the shape-shifting trickster we had seen before, suddenly he's ballooned up to Sentinel-size and is shooting generic energy blasts. Claremont remarks on this incongruity in the script -- there's a line where he thinks something like, "Why is Apocalypse suddenly using a blunderbuss approach?"<br /><br />One reason why Louise Simonson's X-Factor Forever has been so rapturously received among fans of the original series is that it's the first reappearance of the "real" Apocalypse in 20 years. We've been putting up with a generic Darth Vader clone all the rest of the time.<br /><br />What happens to Apocalypse here will happen to Sinister as well when he returns: previous characterization and motives vanish, and his power set becomes utterly arbitrary and undefined. Welcome to the '90s.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-26012668139699025302010-07-28T03:13:59.365-04:002010-07-28T03:13:59.365-04:00I haven't read these X-Factor issues yet and I...I haven't read these X-Factor issues yet and I really want to. Your review makes them sound like a lot of fun, Jason. <br /><br />Also, I feel like the panels listed in Geoff's link aren't really that much more goofy than any random ten panels from most Claremont issues. So I agree with Jason, screw Sims!Jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-31798229214564939122010-07-27T21:46:35.803-04:002010-07-27T21:46:35.803-04:00Interesting. That's a re-write of an old Sims ...Interesting. That's a re-write of an old Sims blog from years ago. <br /><br />Not one of my favorites, for obvious reasons, particularly the crack about Magneto's verbosity. But he does point out some funny stuff, for sure.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-23001832359771014282010-07-27T21:20:11.252-04:002010-07-27T21:20:11.252-04:00its 6 million, i think. Also -- check out this lis...its 6 million, i think. Also -- check out this list of goofy things from X-Men 1 http://bit.ly/9vhgbcGeoff Klockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-44350320219644486902010-07-27T21:14:30.840-04:002010-07-27T21:14:30.840-04:00Ken, thanks for mentioning some more fun moments f...Ken, thanks for mentioning some more fun moments from this arc. It really is a lot of fun, for all its flaws.<br /><br />I confess I do really like these villains too, even though they are pretty Image-tastic. And in the end, they don't really do much here other than look cool. There is a curious disconnect between their introduction -- where Claremont has them go into fastidious detail about how they plan to take down each member of X-Factor -- and the actual fight, where Portacio basically just draws a big rumble.<br /><br />I actually at the time looked forward to seeing more of those guys, but I think the next time they turned up (X-Cutioner's Song?) it wasn't as cool; in fact, it was pretty lame.<br /><br />I was pleased with myself when I only bought one copy of X-Force #1, despite the gimmicks. <br /><br />Then two months later I went and bought all five versions of X-Men #1. But I regret nothing.<br /><br />I don't know if I said it was rare for Claremont to use first-person narration (he always did it for Wolverine solo). But I think I did mention how having Forge narrate two issues of Uncanny in a row was an oddity, and the only time in the Claremont Uncanny run where the same character narrated two issues in a row.<br /><br />(There are isolated examples amongst Uncanny, though. Wolverine narrates the Brood issue you mentioned, and also issue 205, the Deathstrike issue. And Storm narrates issue 198, "LifeDeath: Heart of Darkness.")<br /><br />Peter, what is the tally on X-Men #1? Is it four million? (I know I've got some stuff in the blog for that issue about how it sold so many copies, but I think I fudged talking about the actual amount 'cause I didn't know where to look it up ...)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-26482846609428723902010-07-27T20:22:59.987-04:002010-07-27T20:22:59.987-04:00yeah, seriously. must have been all those idiot fa...yeah, seriously. must have been all those idiot fanboys who bought all 6 covers of x-men 1 and 2 copies of x-force so hey could keep one bagged forever. what kind of jerk does that?<br /><br />/checks longboxes<br /><br />doh!Ken Dynamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061339942941183172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-87133339314303599232010-07-27T20:07:41.805-04:002010-07-27T20:07:41.805-04:00And it wasn't even issue #1 with a foil cover ...And it wasn't even issue #1 with a foil cover and a holographic trading card inside the polybag!<br /><br />If you really want to melt your brain, look up the sales figures for X-Men #1 and X-Force #1. Sigh.Peter Faragonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-29329003637239170052010-07-27T20:00:21.687-04:002010-07-27T20:00:21.687-04:00almost forgot my favorite bit about issue 68 - hav...almost forgot my favorite bit about issue 68 - having cyclops narrate. Jason, didn't you mention before how rare it is to have a character narrate in a Claremont comic? the Wolverine Brood issues are the only ones I can think of right now.<br /><br />Also what i found fascinating is the yearly legal thingee for subscription mags that goes in the letter columns popped up and it mentioned the circulation umbers at around 400,000. thats 4 times what the highest selling current ongoing title (or to put it this way, the latest Uncanny X-Men, no. 525, sold 76K), and something like 13 times what x-factor sells now. i guess thats the early 90's for you.Ken Dynamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061339942941183172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-63965035486279191082010-07-27T19:53:19.090-04:002010-07-27T19:53:19.090-04:00Jason - nothing against Jean getting her powers ba...Jason - nothing against Jean getting her powers back. I just think it's narratively weird. The writers took her telepathy away in X-Factor #1 so that she wouldn't learn about Madelyne Pryor right away, but she remained TK-only until long after that particular plot point was resolved. Then, just as having Jean be a TK-only character might prove narratively useful again, she gets her telepathy back. It has nothing to do with whether I prefer Jean one way or another (I don't care) or whether having a telepath and a telekinetic on the team would lead to more interesting story possibilities than having two telepaths (It didn't come up much in practice either way). I'm just trying to understand the motives behind those editorial decisions.Peter Faragonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-45320854586157259172010-07-27T19:49:39.676-04:002010-07-27T19:49:39.676-04:00Peter - small quibble but Portacio had been the ar...Peter - small quibble but Portacio had been the artist for a few issues earlier (63) during the Bobby/Opal robotic ninja/crazy ice hands storyline (i am fuzzy on the specifics).<br /><br />Jason - great write up, you are right, there's lots of great Claremontian moments here. And for all of Portacio's shortcomings has as a graphical storyteller (the worst for me are the arbitrary use of blank spaces and often absurd panel/word balloon flow - altho maybe that can be at least partially blamed on the letterer), he's got heaps of imagination, and i did enjoy some of his often totally random creations (Barrage, the man with missile launchers for hands - why not?)<br /><br />my favorite bits: in 65, one of the henchmen (already forgot most of their names) cleverly repurposes the Mark Anthony speech from Caesar and is subsequently told to shut up by another henchman; in 68, apocalypse jokes about the 'wonder of mutants, every time a body turns around there are more and more of you"; and cyclops saying "in our line of work, villains and heroes always seem to come back, bigger and better than before." I thought both could also serve as meta commentary from claremont.<br /><br />plus a few of the plot points from Lee and Portacio are nice, such as the Marvel Universe cameos in 66 echoing the cameos in the issue where dark phoenix ate the D'Bari sun (135 i think). and Beast using two blow dryers after his 'daily ablution' was fun. and the askani's outfit was reminiscent of the original teams unis, kinda, right? Kirby's work will live forever!<br /><br />so yeah, some weird 'image-y' stuff going on, but overall very enjoyable. i'm glad you reminded me Claremont scripted these and i dug them out to re-read. thanks, jason!Ken Dynamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061339942941183172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-41866842492643182662010-07-27T19:49:12.057-04:002010-07-27T19:49:12.057-04:00Don't call yourself a bad critic. You've b...Don't call yourself a bad critic. You've been the highlight of my Tuesdays for two years.<br /><br />I forced myself through Simonson's X-Force and New Mutants (a frequently painful slog) while I followed your reviews because I'm an obsessive completist (I also read Nocenti's Dazzler/Beast and Longshot, Cockrum's Nightcrawler, Mantlo's X-Men/Micronauts and Shooter's godawful Secret Wars I and II, because I wanted to punish myself.) So when I talk about Simonson's X-Factor, I'm not criticizing Claremont, and I'm certainly not criticizing you for reading it - I just think it's worthwhile to put everything in context. The friendship between Claremont and Simonson was an important piece of background for the best issues of the X-Men, so the differences of opinion between the two writers on the characters they shared is notable.Peter Faragonoreply@blogger.com