tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post9102266259992850910..comments2024-03-28T03:13:15.831-04:00Comments on Remarkable: Uncanny X-Men #251Geoff Klockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-39449787468644649152014-11-15T16:22:14.394-05:002014-11-15T16:22:14.394-05:00I have previously listed Uncanny X-Men #234 as my ...I have previously listed <i>Uncanny X-Men</i> #234 as my all-time favorite X-anything cover. Allow me to amend that here, as the cover to <i>Uncanny</i> #251 ties.NietzscheIsDeadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768198450373297438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-8657717665602301652013-04-18T20:12:54.625-04:002013-04-18T20:12:54.625-04:00Jason, Inkwell,
Here's the MTM/X-Men article ...Jason, Inkwell,<br /><br />Here's the MTM/X-Men article courtesy the Wayback Machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20061026022926/http://www.silverbulletcomics.com/news/story.php?a=2894.Frank Baumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03714148827425163382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-81607551662967316372010-01-18T16:24:18.721-05:002010-01-18T16:24:18.721-05:00Cheers to the end of my favorite phase of the x-me...Cheers to the end of my favorite phase of the x-men.bahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14892528094367274617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-3473731486480838912010-01-17T23:14:46.637-05:002010-01-17T23:14:46.637-05:00I'm glad I found this blog. It is going to be ...I'm glad I found this blog. It is going to be interesting. <br /><br />I was searching for Uncanny X-Men 251 because I'm looking to fill up my collection. And now I'm looking forward to it more than ever. <br /><br />Am I the only one that finds it kind of sad that the sixth link on Google(right after the link here) is a place that you can illegally download this comic? <br /><br />I thought it was supposed to be hard/wrong to steal things? Not recommended by Google. <br /><br />But at the same time it makes me feel a little good that more people will be able to read the classics even if they don't have the money to buy the large anthology editions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-66561578667901340182010-01-17T16:12:55.437-05:002010-01-17T16:12:55.437-05:00Thanks, I.B.!
Don't know much about Print On ...Thanks, I.B.!<br /><br />Don't know much about Print On Demand and am not sure that I'm inclined to learn at this present moment. But, maybe eventually I'll put something together. Ideally I would want to revise it all and -- if going to the trouble of making a book, even a vanity-press jobby, really making it feel like an honest to gosh book. But at the moment, other passions are taking precedence to such a project. <br /><br />Mitch's essay was up at silverbullet for a while, but now I can't find it either. I know the first time I mentioned Mitch's blog there was a hotlink to it, but I'm guessing that it might be disabled, given that the Google search didn't work.<br /><br />Don't know if Mitch is reading these comments still, but maybe he can let us know if there is still a place online where one can read it.<br /><br />It's good stuff!Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-15703922230138733302010-01-17T15:16:38.940-05:002010-01-17T15:16:38.940-05:00While reading this series, I've repeatedly com...While reading this series, I've repeatedly come across references to an article titled, “X-traordinary People: Mary Tyler Moore and the Mutants Explore Pop Psychology.” Unfortunately, I've been unable to find it anywhere on the net. Does anyone have a working link to it? <br /><br />Oh, and Jason:<br />Even if you ever decide to just do a 'cut & copy' print-on-demand version of this series, consider one copy sold. It's the sort of thing I know I'd pull out each and every time I re-read any comic in the Claremont run!Inkwell Bookstorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01609687997535147041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-66062825645329814572010-01-15T13:08:51.742-05:002010-01-15T13:08:51.742-05:00Fair point. There is probably no satisfactory ans...Fair point. There is probably no satisfactory answer. Arguably the X-Men were missing some big guns: Rogue, Storm and Wolverine.<br /><br />And previously, the Deathstrike-Cole-Macon-Reese faction was shown to be pretty formidable. So there's that.<br /><br />Other than that, I got nothin'. You're probably right, there is some flawed logic a-happenin'. Not uncommon for Claremont, but he always sells me on it with the execution.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-36024482185783413702010-01-15T09:25:24.050-05:002010-01-15T09:25:24.050-05:00One big problem I have with this arc: why are the ...One big problem I have with this arc: why are the Reavers a credible threat? The X-Men took out, what, 50 - 100 Reavers when they first arrived and took the town? 8 X-Men, 50-100 Reavers... that's a minimum of 6 Reavers to an X-Man. Now we're supposed to believe that 8 of them pose a threat to 4 X-Men? Let's pretend that Deathstrike and Pierce, as named characters, are worth one X-Man apiece. That's still 3 pud Reavers for the other two to take out before they can go help against the named guys. This is a threat? I just don't buy it. Somebody, please defend, because this has always struck me as a case of "they're dangerous because the writer says they are."Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04480022982363984291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-20888530746020708142010-01-15T00:13:01.510-05:002010-01-15T00:13:01.510-05:00Neil, not sure if this is exactly what you are loo...Neil, not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for, but:<br /><br />One example of a repeated motif would be (and this was pointed out to me by Nathan Adler, The Claremont Fan Whose Attention No Detail Escapes): In that first big story arc of Claremont's, with the M'Kraan crystal, the macguffin involved "nine deathstars" whose alignment apparently allowed<br />the force inside the crystal to escape. Years later, Claremont did the story involving the Adversary, and we were told that the Adversary first got a foothold in our dimension when Forge cast a spell using the souls of the dead members of his army unit. And then in issue 227, we are told explicitly that there were nine souls used in the spell. When Forge casts the counter-spell with the X-Men, it is depicted as their souls seeming to<br />come together (or align) and becoming a star. So, nine souls/stars align, and in two cases it is to allow for the release of some great, destructive force.<br /><br />The Lovecraftian demon-invasion trope is a favorite of Claremont's -- it is used in the very first issue of Uncanny that he plotted (96) with Kierrok, the N'Garai demon. If Mr. Adler is reading, he can provide other examples from the 70s in other Claremont series that used the N'Garai. (Or Cove West, if he's still reading, probably could delineate it). Later, invading<br />demons were the crux of Fall of the Mutants in Uncanny 220-227 (and its<br />prequel story in Uncanny 184-188), and then of course it was the premise behind "Inferno" a year later. (And would go on to be the premise of Claremont's 2003 Justice League story "Scary Monsters" as well.)<br /><br />There is, of course, the repeated motif with Jean Grey's psychic seduction by Mastermind being mirrored in Madelyne's psychic seduction by S'ym.<br /><br />The "massacre" trope, after its use with the Marauders and Morlocks, is<br />reprised when the Reavers attack Muir Isle in Uncanny 254-255.<br /><br />The X-Men teaming with an old enemy in the face of a new, greater enemy is repeated in Claremont's run: See the X-Men's team-up with Freedom Force against the Adversary in "Fall" and then again against the Reavers in the aforementioned Uncanny 254-255. Or the X-Men teaming up with the Hellfire<br />Club against Nimrod in Uncanny 208-209. (You could arguably throw "God Loves, Man Kills" into this grouping as well, with the X-Men teaming with Magneto against Rev. Stryker.) This one is fairly common in superhero comics in general, though it seems noteworthy that in Claremont's case, this is almost always the seed of a long-term alliance, not just a one-time deal. The X-Men form an alliance with the Club after their fight with Nimrod; Magneto becomes an X-Men not long after "God Loves, Man Kills," etc. Freedom Force -- at least, Mystique and Destiny -- were always portrayed sympathetically after "Fall of the Mutants."<br /><br />So that's some stuff.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-40320190386542331352010-01-14T13:49:14.237-05:002010-01-14T13:49:14.237-05:00Oh, the things I could do with a publishing compan...Oh, the things I could do with a publishing company!Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-89932596855827122582010-01-14T13:35:13.273-05:002010-01-14T13:35:13.273-05:00Thank you, Teebore! If anyone out there is willin...Thank you, Teebore! If anyone out there is willing to give you control of a publishing company in exchange for that right arm, then I can see a way this could work. <br /><br />Otherwise, it's looking pretty unlikely at this point. Alas!Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-18032196576083057022010-01-14T13:19:35.127-05:002010-01-14T13:19:35.127-05:00It was going to be an appendix if I turned these b...<i>It was going to be an appendix if I turned these blogs into a book.</i><br /><br /><b>IF</b>? <br /><br />Please tell me there's still a chance you might turn these into a book, because I would give my right arm for such a book.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-14425618026205553412010-01-14T13:15:24.589-05:002010-01-14T13:15:24.589-05:00Evan,
Editorial did a decent job of working the W...Evan,<br /><br />Editorial did a decent job of working the Wolverine solo title around the gaps in Claremont's issues, the only problem being that Wolverine is sort of on a time-delay. The arc that is set from Wolverine 17-23, for example, is pretty cannily worked out to be concurrent with the Wolverine-less gap from Uncanny 247-250. (But of course, in real time, those issues of Wolverine came out concurrently with Uncanny 254-260, which did create some weirdness with "Acts of Vengeance," as you probably recall.) It's worked out fairly deliberately, though: A scene in Wolverine #20 cuts to the X-Men circa Uncanny 249, and then at the end of Wolverine 23, we see Logan in his cowboy hat, getting into his truck to drive back to the Outback town (which segues right into Uncanny 251, where he's wearing the same hat and driving the same truck). All in all, they did a pretty good job for the first two years.<br /><br />After that, because of the whole "deterioration" thing you mentioned, things get less workable. Though they were still trying. <br /><br />In Uncanny 261-268, Claremont left a bunch of Wolverine-less gaps, and when he did show Logan in the comic, Claremont made it clear that Wolverine was bumming around Madripoor, which allowed room for the Madripoor-based adventures in the solo comic (issues 24-33). As noted, there is no reference in those solo issues to Logan's being debilitated. But at least they got the locations coordinated. <br /><br />I think from Wolverine #34 onward, the stories take place after the X-Men have reunited (so after X-Tinction Agenda, at least, if not all the way after Claremont's final issue). <br /><br />I've got a big spreadsheet with all this stuff on it. :) It was going to be an appendix if I turned these blogs into a book. (Okay, I'll admit it, I would have made the spreadsheet regardless. I'm a geek.)<br /><br />And "that reporter" that the X-Men saved from The Reavers was Jessan Hoan -- not a reporter, but a bank officer. Not that it matters, just me being a pedant. Cheers! :)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-80571835987349526802010-01-14T10:40:26.573-05:002010-01-14T10:40:26.573-05:00I'd just like to mention that Wolverine's ...I'd just like to mention that Wolverine's absence from the X-men previous to this period only works well with the first ten or so issues of Wolverine, and the bimonthly story pieces about Wolverine from Marvel Comics Presents 1-10. All of which was written by Claremont himself. He even goes so far as to use this time with Logan gone solo to tip up some loose ends from the X-men's first battle in Australia with the Reavers, bringing back that reporter who they saved and also working in plot points from titles he left such as New Mutants and Spiderwoman. Once other writers come in to do these two series, Claremont takes Wolverine back into his Uncanny run starting with this issue. From this point on, due to Wolverines deteriorating condition and mind, no other appearances of him make any continuity sense.Evannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-81155703666887680082010-01-13T12:03:27.370-05:002010-01-13T12:03:27.370-05:00"***There are, of course, a lot of repeated m..."***There are, of course, a lot of repeated motifs, themes and plot points over the course of the run. I invite you and anyone to keep on pointing out stuff that you see -- I've tried to do the same when I came across it."<br /><br />Can anyone mention a few off the top of their head? It seems like it's mostly minor stuff, near as I can recall - or, as in this issue, Claremont usually only nods to the past so as to differentiate it from the present - to say that <i>that</i> scene, while superficially similar, belongs in an entirely different universe. It's still the X-Men, but they've come a long way, baby.neilshyminskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14745442660488961314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-14460009947860427462010-01-13T11:37:44.112-05:002010-01-13T11:37:44.112-05:00Fascinating stuff. The way this issue closes a loo...Fascinating stuff. The way this issue closes a loop with the start of the Outback years in #229 is something I'd never put together before.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-12588073942204481122010-01-13T11:13:24.634-05:002010-01-13T11:13:24.634-05:00"That's not a slight on those early blog ..."That's not a slight on those early blog posts though, since I think there's a ton of praise for that Byrne era stuff, but not as much in depth analysis, like you did here."<br /><br />***That's true. I was glad to have some other people show up to get a bit deeper with the Byrne stuff.<br /><br />I would argue that there is more to say about the run the farther one goes into it, because more and more tradition builds up ... but that may just be me making excuses for not getting as in-depth with the Cockrum and Byrne stuff. Thanks for keeping me honest, Patrick!<br /><br />"I know Jason has argued the last two were good but I, and others, felt they were weak;"<br /><br />*** Actually I argued that issue 249 was good. I agreed that 250 is weak. :)<br /><br />"I'm now of the mind that Marvel should release a nice over-sized hardcover omnibus of the Australian years."<br /><br />****Oh man, that'd be sweet. Yay to this, and to the rest of your comment, Paul. See, Geoff? SEE??!?!?<br /><br />"didn't address the the Wolverine panel that prompts that response, and for which - in its hilariously contrasting subtlety - Marc and Tom deserve just as much credit."<br /><br />*** Absolutely true.<br /><br />"I wonder how much further we can read these issues back on to the earlier stuff, or if it's merely a weak connection that can't go much further than this."<br /><br />***There are, of course, a lot of repeated motifs, themes and plot points over the course of the run. I invite you and anyone to keep on pointing out stuff that you see -- I've tried to do the same when I came across it.<br /><br />Thanks for all the comments, guys. I really love this issue (and I'll admit, I'm pretty pleased with this blog entry as well). Great to hear y'all's feedback.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-12539281333574373112010-01-13T09:04:15.784-05:002010-01-13T09:04:15.784-05:00Wolverine is incredibly badass in this issue. Even...Wolverine is incredibly badass in this issue. Even when he's chained to a cross and dying. Jason rightly points out the hilarious Pierce panel, but didn't address the the Wolverine panel that prompts that response, and for which - in its hilariously contrasting subtlety - Marc and Tom deserve just as much credit. It's tough to represent mockery in a single comic panel, especially when you're not playing it totally over the top. Silvestri will never be this good again.<br /><br />Also? The ending of this issue, with Wolverine turning to Jubilee to ask for help? This should just as celebrated as the Hellfire Club sewer scene. And this further cements the Jubilee-as-Kitty thing, doesn't it? Because the Reavers - with Pierce, appropriately - are like the Club. Which makes Psylocke a bit like Phoenix. I wonder how much further we can read these issues back on to the earlier stuff, or if it's merely a weak connection that can't go much further than this.neilshyminskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14745442660488961314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-67331589513649123692010-01-13T08:56:51.308-05:002010-01-13T08:56:51.308-05:00"And it is said that once, he defended Clarem..."And it is said that once, he defended Claremont's skills to a bear in the woods and that the bear thanked him, and later they became friends."<br /><br />Best bio ever.neilshyminskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14745442660488961314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-39647090618534568002010-01-13T08:19:19.382-05:002010-01-13T08:19:19.382-05:00Incredible issue. Thanks again for helping me revi...Incredible issue. Thanks again for helping me revisit this era. I'm now of the mind that Marvel should release a nice over-sized hardcover omnibus of the Australian years.<br /><br />I personally think that this era beats out Morrison's in the "sexy cool" department. There's no school, no Magneto, no Phoenix rehash, no Weapon X, just a brilliantly different and deep take on the concept of the X-Men.<br /><br />End the ending is better.Paul Steven Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18392153757274116397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-56776345176902481572010-01-12T23:27:06.157-05:002010-01-12T23:27:06.157-05:00Definitely one of Silvestri's strongest issues...Definitely one of Silvestri's strongest issues, I know Jason has argued the last two were good but I, and others, felt they were weak; I can't help but feel he was saving his engergy for this one.<br /><br />The outback era was definitely the epitomy of the 'cool, sexy' X-men and also their most outsiderish... I remember when this issue first came out, seeing it on a newstand and finding the cover, semi-sacreligious to someone who was raised Pentecostal Holiness, so creepy and unsettling... but, at the same time, intruiging... about a year later I would would finally become a regular reader of the series... just as it was about to become something far more safe and generically superheroic... but these Silvestri issues composed the bulk of my back issues when I was a kid so, it is this era, that has always most defined Claremont's X-men for me.Scott McDarmonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17635278219643824124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-24629038909174610572010-01-12T23:14:18.596-05:002010-01-12T23:14:18.596-05:00The idea that these stories are more potent for a ...The idea that these stories are more potent for a modern audience than the 'classics' because they're less mined is great, and I think explains a lot of the way that I responded to reading the Claremont run. The Phoenix stuff is great, but it didn't surprise me in the way that the Paul Smith era, or even stuff like the Mutant Massacre did. I basically knew how the Phoenix Saga would go from the first time I read it, but I wasn't as aware of what would happen in later stories, so they felt fresher and more vital than the canon. <br /><br />I think the same is true of any perceived classic, as you go through, you want to find something you can latch on to personally, and it's a lot more interesting to consider the virtures of a neglected story like the Outback stuff than to praise Dark Phoenix again. That's not a slight on those early blog posts though, since I think there's a ton of praise for that Byrne era stuff, but not as much in depth analysis, like you did here.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04702965396185870813noreply@blogger.com