tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post3371105914695696650..comments2024-03-29T02:32:15.437-04:00Comments on Remarkable: Jim Starlin's 1975 Warlock seriesGeoff Klockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-37285264441764018432016-10-21T08:17:28.348-04:002016-10-21T08:17:28.348-04:00Was the reference to Spider-Man Annual 2 a joke? ...Was the reference to Spider-Man Annual 2 a joke? Starlin"s Warlock didn't appear there, did he?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-68953179245002951382012-01-18T11:43:33.380-05:002012-01-18T11:43:33.380-05:00Starlin was influenced by both Kirby and Ditko. Hi...Starlin was influenced by both Kirby and Ditko. His Warlock v. Magus is a vision of Jesus fighting against the Catholic (or Universal) Church, a metaphor for what would happen if Jesus came back now and saw what was being done in his name over the years, with Warlock ultimately saving the world through his death. Very rich, with some swipes at the comic book industry in the process, with cameos by Roy Thomas in the realm on insanity and seeing the comic book industry as a tower of trash with a few diamonds hidden away in it.<br />And of course, it has the theme of death and suicide, almost a constant in Starlin's work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-54668982520118397792011-05-14T20:53:51.065-04:002011-05-14T20:53:51.065-04:00Seems to me that Starlin is influenced more by Ste...Seems to me that Starlin is influenced more by Steranko than anyone else. He shares Steranko's love of cinema-style drawings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-53647043812668709182010-05-08T23:09:44.981-04:002010-05-08T23:09:44.981-04:00Just read Jim Starlin's Metamorphosis Odyssey ...Just read Jim Starlin's Metamorphosis Odyssey for the first time since I was 10. It is sooooo obviously influenced by Michael Moorcock's Elric novel Stormbringer. As we know from the Invisibles and Gideon Stargrave, we know that Morrison was also quite the Moorcock fan (Stargrave being a pastiche of Moorcock's Jerry Cornelius).<br /><br />I think, whether or not Starlin influenced Morrison or not (which is still my thesis), they were at least coming from the same places.<br /><br />And if you google "Grant Morrison Jim Starlin" this blog entry is the sixth listing. Just saying.deepfixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05688617334074955669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-43683737622452186192010-03-17T16:58:44.022-04:002010-03-17T16:58:44.022-04:00I've recently read the first and last issues o...I've recently read the first and last issues of the pre-Starlin Warlock. It's not nearly as good as what Starlin did, but still weird and awesome. Maybe the issues in between are boring, but the first and last make for some crazy reading.Tom Sciolihttp://www.tomscioli.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-52873369137002336992009-07-06T18:56:20.773-04:002009-07-06T18:56:20.773-04:00"The Land of the Way It Is" is almost as..."The Land of the Way It Is" is almost as great as "In the World That's Coming!" from Kirby's OMAC series.Christian O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00444025571307204096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-65422775536049014632009-07-04T22:31:49.475-04:002009-07-04T22:31:49.475-04:00Lovely post Geoff. You're spot on about how ne...Lovely post Geoff. You're spot on about how neglected Starlin's influence on Morrison is (Shining Night being one of the more obvious spots though).<br /><br />I have to disagree though about Darkseid-through-Starlin, at least in Morrison. The DCU conception of Darkseid from The Great Darkness Saga through Byrne's Fourth World probably does owe a lot to Starlin, but Morrison's sloganeering Darkseid is much more in keeping with Kirby, and in an interview pre-Final Crisis waxed on about Kirby's dialogue, particularly for Darkseid.<br /><br />Dougie, Starlin's version of Warlock is clearly based on Moorcock, who's another influence on Morrison (I really need to read some Jerry Cornilius).<br /><br />James, the pre-Starlin Warlock is a mess. Started by Roy Thomas and Gil Kane, it's part of a certain kind of populist re-evaluation of Jesus that took place during the 70s. The problem is Thomas and Kane both abandoned it quickly, as did every other set of creators, so over eight issues plus the three Hulk issues that wrap the series up, there's little consistency. It's utterly fascinating, but frustrating at the same time.<br /><br />I cannot wait for the Starlin Warlock Masterwork. I've desperately wanted a collected version since I first read it back around '94.Joe Gualtierinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-72715607667587358812009-07-04T14:12:47.716-04:002009-07-04T14:12:47.716-04:00FYI:
Starlin's Warlock run (all the issues yo...FYI:<br /><br />Starlin's Warlock run (all the issues you list in your article) will be release in Hard Cover format in Marvel Masterworks Warlock Volume #2 on 7/8/09.Shadow Moodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13764409282477541409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-70207479666357238422009-07-03T16:01:49.755-04:002009-07-03T16:01:49.755-04:00I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the ways in...I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the ways in which Starlin's Warlock resembles Moorcock's Elric (who, of course, appeared in the Marvel Universe courtesy of Barry Smith's Conan). In a metaphor for addiction, this morally ambiguous sorceror-king is dependent upon the soul-absorbing magic sword Stormbringer for physical vitality; he is the pawn of cosmic forces of Chaos and Order; and as an albino, has an unusual skin colour. Also,not only does he kill everyone he loves, he ends the universe itself (like Starlin's Vanth Dreadstar).Dougienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-89753546254145016632009-07-03T13:09:25.089-04:002009-07-03T13:09:25.089-04:00And, the more I think about it, where would Dreads...And, the more I think about it, where would Dreadstar fit in all this. The big hole between the Captain Marvel/Warlock/Thanos era and the Cosmic Odyssey/Silver Surfer/Infinity Gauntlet era was mostly taken up with creator-owned Dreadstar which featured a villain the size of Thanos and latter day Dreadstar in The Lord High Papal.<br /><br />I need to stop thinking.deepfixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05688617334074955669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-17767044275096410252009-07-03T07:26:04.285-04:002009-07-03T07:26:04.285-04:00Glad you turned this into a post, Geoff - it's...Glad you turned this into a post, Geoff - it's a great read.<br /><br />There's a <a href="http://marvel.com/catalog/?id=12097" rel="nofollow">Marvel Masterworks</a> coming out collecting these issues. Not keen on that format, but it'd be a convenient way of checking it out.<br /><br />There also seems to be a <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Masterworks-Warlock-Roy-Thomas/dp/078512411X" rel="nofollow">prior volume</a> collecting pre-Starlin stuff, but since Marvel doesn't even acknowledge it on their site (that I can find) I guess it can't matter too much.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14740669500899738381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-24780466589061285372009-07-03T06:09:47.010-04:002009-07-03T06:09:47.010-04:00No sooner do you mention Warlock than Morrison him...No sooner do you mention Warlock than Morrison himself confirms what you say. From his interview on i09 about Batman and Robin 2: <br /><br />"I don't have many comics in my tattered, bath-damaged 'collection' that date before 1972 when I became a 'fan' and a collector. My era of comics is the 'dark age' of the 70s and 80s, not the so-called 'silver age', so contrary to popular belief, I don't have any particular emotional attachment to 60s comics, other than John Broome's Flash stories which enchanted me as a small child.<br /><br />I grew up with Neal Adams and Denny O'Neil, Len Wein, Engelhart, Starlin, Gerber, McGregor so my comic-writing style can be traced back to some combination of O'Neil' 'relevance' and Starlin 'cosmic'. Silver age, not so much."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-9949587075212473682009-07-02T23:00:59.075-04:002009-07-02T23:00:59.075-04:00The panels of Shang Chi are from his debut in Marv...The panels of Shang Chi are from his debut in Marvel Special Edition #15 written by Steve Englehart and drawn by Jim Starlin.Streeboramahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13246099190675220076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-72785141954879524222009-07-02T22:36:15.722-04:002009-07-02T22:36:15.722-04:00I'm about to read this article: http://www.com...I'm about to read this article: http://www.comicartmagazine.com/archive-issue8sect06.php<br /><br />I understand that it deals with how Starlin is really much more Ditko influenced than Kirby. I wonder if this explains the more philosophic "world-weary" aspect of Thanos--as if he were Darkseid as invisioned by Ditko?deepfixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05688617334074955669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-84302716054928733212009-07-02T21:00:25.454-04:002009-07-02T21:00:25.454-04:00Coincidence?....Thanos appears from '73-'7...Coincidence?....Thanos appears from '73-'76 during Starlin's run on Captain Marvel and Warlock. In '78 Starlin works on Legion of Superheroes alongside Paul Levitz for a few issues just as DC is tentatively putting Darkseid's toe into the DC universe (not that those issues involved Darkseid.) In the early '80s, Paul Levitz pens the first definitive post-Kirby appearance of Darkseid in the DC Universe during The Legion of Superheroes "Great Darkness Saga." By the late 80s Darkseid appears in The Cosmic Odyssey by Jim Starlin who afterwards returns to Thanos in the pages of Silver Surfer. He spends the early 90s further developing Thanos's character just as Grant Morrison is about to return Darkseid to power in JLA...<br /><br />By the way, thanks for the quote.deepfixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05688617334074955669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-87462381826143246762009-07-02T17:23:38.685-04:002009-07-02T17:23:38.685-04:00You're on the money re: "The Land of the ...You're on the money re: "The Land of the Way it Is", Geoff. Didn't the final page of Marvel Boy trail the intended sequel as "The End of the Way That Was"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-46258699130140027982009-07-02T16:04:43.631-04:002009-07-02T16:04:43.631-04:00mitch -- Hamlet is very much fighting himself for ...mitch -- Hamlet is very much fighting himself for all of Hamlet of course, and the external figure of his internal fight is a dark version of himself: Fortinbras, a brute to be sure, but also a man whose father (like Hamlet, he has the same first name as his dad) was killed in battle (by hamlet's dad) and now is forced to take orders from his Uncle-King when he is the one who should probably be king.Geoff Klockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-20296932499397624022009-07-02T15:50:28.277-04:002009-07-02T15:50:28.277-04:00i have been OBSeSSED with this stuff lately, so it...i have been OBSeSSED with this stuff lately, so its nice to have some one else thinking about it. I'm also on a big Shakespeare kick and I keep thinking of Warlock as a sci-fi revision of the shakespearean tradgedy, where you've got a hero-villain like Macbeth or Richard III and a hero that comes out of exile (macduff or richmund) to thwart him. Except here, the hero Warlock is in a sort of temporal exile from the future corrupt hero-villain he will eventually become. Amazing.<br /><br />-MitchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-25979995221572137922009-07-02T15:09:46.490-04:002009-07-02T15:09:46.490-04:00Until just now I thought you had been Twittering a...Until just now I thought you had been Twittering about WARLORD... not WARLOCKscott91777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-84791649123891489102009-07-02T13:35:51.943-04:002009-07-02T13:35:51.943-04:00Dang. So I guess I need this in my life now, huh?Dang. So I guess I need this in my life now, huh?Dylan Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15550687762896316858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-14323866897855516762009-07-02T13:22:44.368-04:002009-07-02T13:22:44.368-04:00Moore and Veitch did a pretty good (well, I liked ...Moore and Veitch did a pretty good (well, I liked it anyway) "Warlock" pastiche in an issue of Supreme. Issue 49, I think.<br /><br />Claremont must've been influenced by Starlin as well ... hence, an alien New Mutant called Warlock coming to earth, pursued by his father, Magus.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-85587158628687990192009-07-02T13:14:53.700-04:002009-07-02T13:14:53.700-04:00That final panel reminds me of the stuff from Tezu...That final panel reminds me of the stuff from Tezuka's Buddha that McCloud uses in Understanding Comics to show some typical manga effects rarely used in Western comics...<br /><br />(I have read a couple vols. of the Tezuka, but the effects are most noticeable to me when McCloud highlights & isolates them...)Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.com