tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post5868802359591039051..comments2024-03-29T02:32:15.437-04:00Comments on Remarkable: Uncanny 275Geoff Klockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09080580776997273785noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-67081641397478830352014-11-18T17:52:18.238-05:002014-11-18T17:52:18.238-05:00Menshevik,
Good catch on Wolverine-as-mentor. Non...Menshevik,<br /><br />Good catch on Wolverine-as-mentor. Nonetheless, Wolvie does conform to the Claremontian style of mentor: he's a psychopath and a failed samurai, and various of his decisions (stabbing Rachel comes to mind) end in disaster rather than success. Even when successful, his style of mentorship is more conflict-laden and aggressive than Charlie's.NietzscheIsDeadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768198450373297438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-25229534647156554402010-07-08T17:19:30.268-04:002010-07-08T17:19:30.268-04:00The power of Magneto's character in these fina...The power of Magneto's character in these final issues still resonates with me today, In light of Claremonts imminent departure I laways wondered if Magneto's disenchantment with the world and basically giving up the path he'd been trying to adhere to was an analogy Claremont was using for his own feeling at theat point.<br />Nontheless I think this characterisation and gradual narrative path he did with Magneto (and others to be fair) really did have a profound effect on the way writers presented their villains in other books; just at Marvel villains had become much more complex and refined in their motivations and methods throughout the 80s and echoed the more ambiguous nature of Magneto - The Red Skull, Kraven, The Mandarin, even The Absorbing Man was given added depth!<br /><br />Still, in the final analysis this is a classic run of stories, but the signs that old hand Claremont is losing his control are starting to become evident....Dave Mullenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14712176963061935401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-31367261766461503222010-07-07T22:09:27.785-04:002010-07-07T22:09:27.785-04:00God, I love the art in this comic, perhaps one of ...God, I love the art in this comic, perhaps one of my all time favorites. Also, I appreciate that Lee drew Jubilee as normal-looking for a teenager, rather than pneumatic like every other x-chick (and comic in the 90s).<br /><br />Anyone else like the little aside claremont threw in when he apparently realized that he needed to get the hologram machine from magneto to rogue? Just a little paranthesis saying "It's a good thing magneto gave me that hologram machine before!"bahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14892528094367274617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-90994789053856032362010-07-07T18:39:14.754-04:002010-07-07T18:39:14.754-04:00Whoops, the scene with Magneto and Rachel that I w...Whoops, the scene with Magneto and Rachel that I was thinking off was actually in #196. Sorry, my bad.Menshevikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07112873248418375924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-39044055851100406002010-07-07T18:35:41.096-04:002010-07-07T18:35:41.096-04:00Re. Xavier - well, Chris Claremont did add a lot t...Re. Xavier - well, Chris Claremont did add a lot to his biography, quite a bit in the pages of UXM and CXM, such as his engagement and scientific partnership with Moira MacTaggert, his romance with Gaby Haller (setting up the Legion saga) and early friendship with Magneto in Israel (both UXM #161), and his encounter with Amahl Farouk in Egypt (UXM #117), and his pre-X-Men work with Jean Grey (Bizarre Adventures and CXM). Plus of course he gave him Lilandra as a love interest in the present. <br /><br />What Claremont also did was render the relationship between Xavier and his students more conflict-prone, having various X-Men criticize him and his decisions. One thing that really stuck in my mind was UXM #138, where Cyclops reflects on the past at Jean's grave and recalls how much it hurt him to discover that Professor X had made him (and everybody else apart from Jean) believe that he was dead. <br /><br />So all in all I'd agree that Claremont did a lot to humanize him, and show that he was fallible. Writing him out (e.g. by sending him off to the Shi'ar galaxy) or depowering him also would have had pragmatic reasons as at full telepathic strength he was too powerful in relation to the team (that probably was why they had killed him off during the Silver Age).<br /><br />Re. what Jason wrote about the mentor thing I'm a bit sceptic. Magneto really only played a mentor role with the New Mutants (and arguably with Rachel in UXM #199, but that was a special case because she remembered him that way from her past in the future). The relationship to the X-Men was quite different. Also CC never implemented Gateway as mentor, and I am not entirely convinced he intended to do that in the first place given Gateway's moral ambiguity and that he never said anything (except once as a gag to Jubilee). The way I see it, the person who played a mentor role most frequently to other X-Men (apart from Xavier) was Wolverine.Menshevikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07112873248418375924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-8793840707538830862010-07-07T17:21:09.061-04:002010-07-07T17:21:09.061-04:00Interesting question, Shlomo.
I think the answer...Interesting question, Shlomo. <br /><br />I think the answer is probably that Claremont's significant Xavier characterizations mostly took place in his "New Mutants," which I did not cover here. The "Legion" trilogy in New Mutants 26-28, for example ... and actually the previous arc (the "Cloak and Dagger" stuff) has some good Xavier moments, issue 25 particularly, as I recall.<br /><br />A lot of Claremont's work with Xavier was to humanize him and limit his power, I think. I don't think Claremont much liked the whole idea of Xavier-as-teacher. I may have commented before that the privileged, rich white dude as mentor never seemed to work much for Claremont (whether or not he thought about things in those terms), and the author preferred the X-Men's mentor (if they ever had one at all) to be Magneto -- a Jew, and Holocaust survivor -- or, obliquely, Gateway -- a seemingly disenfranchised black Australian.<br /><br />Claremont seemed to want to bring Xavier down a few pegs, and make him more fallible and human. And with the exception of the above New Mutants issues, I don't know that Claremont ever really succeeded particularly well at it. Xavier's most human moments in Claremont's X-Men, off the top of my head:<br /><br />X-Men 168 (Xavier wrestles with the fact that he cannot walk, despite having been healed by Shi'ar science -- also, Kitty tells the world that he is a jerk)<br /><br />X-Men 180 (Xavier plays basketball, laughs at how bad he is at it; then realizes he thinks Storm is hot)<br /><br />X-Men 192/193 (Xavier gets beaten by racist teenagers, then gets dressed in fetish gear by Callisto and the Morlocks)<br /><br />In terms of what Geoff has talked about Millar doing with Xavier -- the powerhouse personality and moral ambiguity (that's possibly a horrible oversimplification) -- that is not territory that Claremont really touched too much, so I can certainly concede that the credit for that goes more to Millar (who was taking his cue from the Silver Age characterization, I'm guessing, but giving it a much cooler and more deliberately modern edge).<br /><br />Sorry if these comments seem a little scattered. I am writing this post from an airplane!Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-46095943076321149942010-07-07T14:14:27.045-04:002010-07-07T14:14:27.045-04:00i think this issue highlights something I started ...i think this issue highlights something I started thinking about with the last couple of reviews: We've been schooled by Jason (thanks!) in Claremont's great work to build up the nuances of magneto. In this issue magneto's complexities are contrasted sharply with the stale plot device that xavier is stuck with. the "imposter!" device negates any possible development of his personality.<br /><br />Is it strange that claremont was able to succeed so well with magneto, but (from my vague recollection) was never able to succeed in building up xavier? Geoff, pulled out many interesting elements from millar and Morrison's stories, exploring how those authors dealt with the character. And, if the long-running question/theme of this blog has been whether Claremont did everything first... When it comes to Xavier did Claremont..NOT get there first? <br /><br />Maybe Jason can remind us of which issues claremont brought xavier to the fore.Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-39867237586453597212010-07-06T20:33:20.540-04:002010-07-06T20:33:20.540-04:00my least favorite Jim Lee addition from these issu...my least favorite Jim Lee addition from these issues: turning Lila Cheney from Joan Jett into an asian pop-singer.<br /><br />There you have it. The real reason I quit reading The X-Men when Claremont left....deepfixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05688617334074955669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-78379152771008576742010-07-06T18:34:08.858-04:002010-07-06T18:34:08.858-04:00@Peter: Every time a writer needs some Xavier dram...@Peter: <i>Every time a writer needs some Xavier drama, they either give him his legs back, send him into space, or make him evil. Here he's all three! </i><br /><br />Ha! Good catch. <br /><br />@J: <i>I love how Claremont left Magneto here and in X-Men 1-3. It's a shame that no other writers could figure out what to do with him like this. </i><br /><br />Ditto. I've always loved Magneto's dialogue with the Russian colonel that Jason quoted, in which Magneto basically says they're both damned. <br /><br />Jason, another fantastic analysis. Nice point about how the callbacks to past events here are climatic whereas in X-Men #1 they are more introductory. <br /><br />Just as these issues grow more bittersweet in light of Claremont's imminent departure, so too does my reading of these reviews, as we're equally drawing nearer to the end.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-54621532525966989722010-07-06T16:40:34.102-04:002010-07-06T16:40:34.102-04:00I love how Claremont left Magneto here and in X-Me...I love how Claremont left Magneto here and in X-Men 1-3. It's a shame that no other writers could figure out what to do with him like this. Then Fatal Attractions happened...Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-49976820782587465672010-07-06T16:19:47.747-04:002010-07-06T16:19:47.747-04:00Peter,
Those are all some amazing observations ab...Peter,<br /><br />Those are all some amazing observations about the art. Great call.<br /><br />I don't think we were ever shown the Shadow King/Magneto battle. One of the many great lost X-Men plot threads ...Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23042008.post-1570462542894354472010-07-06T16:10:33.236-04:002010-07-06T16:10:33.236-04:00I love your analysis of Magneto's arc here. Th...I love your analysis of Magneto's arc here. This is indeed the best possible coda, and a classic end to the hero's journey: Magneto nearly returns to where he began, but he's been so fundamentally changed that he can never really go back.<br /><br />I want to point out three great Scott Williams moments in this issue:<br /><br />Page 29, in which Magneto relives his traumatic past while Zaladane tortures him, Williams goes nuts with a series of ink splatters connecting Isabelle's neck to Magneto's screaming mouth, suggesting all at once and Isabelle's blood, Magneto's agony, and the sort of hallucinogenic inner space of the imagery. (Did we ever get to see the untold Magneto vs. Shadow King alluded to here?)<br /><br />One page 38, Magneto's muscular, naked, delicately shadowed body will go on to become a sort of visual cliché for the Image style and 90s comics in general. It looks pretty great here, though.<br /><br />And my favorite panel in this issue is on page 40, right after the scene you mentioned. Zaladane is dead, her arm lying in the foreground, and as Magneto draws his chain mail costume onto his body, it looks like he's dressing herself in Zaladane's blood - visually counterpointing a line from Magneto's monologue in 274, "I wear red, the color of blood, in tribute to their lost lives."<br /><br />Back to last week's topic of Claremont vs. Jim Lee on plots: on page 34, Rogue gets her Carol Danvers powers back and goes zooming off triumphantly. It's a stand-up-and-cheer moment, but I get the feeling that Claremont intended Rogue to be depowered following the "death" of her Carol Danvers persona in 269. I can just imagine Jim Lee getting tired of that story and throwing that panel in here. At least with the Wolverine material here, there was no visual cue of his powers that could contradict Claremont's "sick Wolverine" plot, but here he had no choice but to roll with the punch.<br /><br />Finally, I love this hilarious pastiche version of Xavier. Every time a writer needs some Xavier drama, they either give him his legs back, send him into space, or make him evil. Here he's all three!Peter Faragonoreply@blogger.com